Dennis
Hi, everyone, welcome to the show. I’m your host Dennis VanDerGinst, along with my partner in crime Dana Watkins. And if you’re a fan of reality television, you’re in for a treat today. Our guest is the lovely Holly Hoffman. Holly was the last remaining member on the Season 21 CBS hit reality show Survivor Nicaragua.

Dennis
And the last, the last one from your tribe and the last woman, if I remember correctly. All right.

Dennis
Well, since then, Holly has become an author and a motivational speaker. And, of course, we’re going to talk about that. I met Holly many years ago when I saw her speak at an event, and thereafter, I invited her to speak and judge at a pageant fundraiser I was part of. And we’ve been friends ever since. So that I make sure that I get this out there, also, please be sure to check out hollyhoffman.org, if you need a great speaker for an event and to order her books.

Dennis
So from a personal perspective, I can tell you that she is a true inspiration and her story is one that we get to explore today.

Dennis
So, Holly, how the hell are ya?

Holly
I’m doing great Dennis. Thank you for that welcome. Wonderful being here and seeing you.

Dennis
Well, it’s wonderful to see you. And we got to catch up a couple of weeks ago, which was great because we hadn’t talked in quite a while. So I really appreciate you coming on today and talking to us. I’m sure that our audience is going to be enthralled by everything you have to say. One thing as we, as we get started, one thing I wanted to go over is obviously your your story doesn’t start with Survivor. You had lived your life before Survivor, but you have a quote on your website, which seemed really insightful about your personal story.

Dennis
And that was “Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending”. And I think that’s attributed to Marie Robinson.

Holly
Correct.

Dennis
I believe she’s an author? OK, so would you say that Survivor was your opportunity to start anew and make a new, a new ending?

Holly
You know, it was. It kind of opened up a door for me that was closed for a long time. And I really lived my life with a big chip on my shoulder. And I was a very angry person. And it was basically because of the way I grew up. I did not have a very good childhood. My father was an abusive alcoholic and my two older brothers and my mom worked three jobs to raise three kids. We didn’t have a lot of money.

Holly
When my parents divorced, she had $7.35 in the bank. We didn’t have a car. We sat many nights at the dinner table with a bowl of cereal. Sometimes it was dry. And growing up I always went back to those days and I always kind of felt sorry for myself when there were kids that had nice things and I didn’t. I had to work three jobs all the way to high school to, to buy school clothes and my basketball shoes and so forth.

Holly
But in the long run, it really taught me that struggles pay off. You just can’t quit. And going into Survivor, you realize that you can survive without anything. You really can get by in life. And I totally had a moment playing that game where I realized to myself, wow, I’m not the true survivor my mom is, because the one thing my mom never did is she never complained, ever.

Dana
Wow.

Dennis
Yeah. You know, it’s funny to hear you say that you, you know, growing up had a chip on your shoulder because in all the time I’ve known you, that has not been something that has been evident, you know, on a personal level.

Dennis
You know, I don’t know if I ever shared this with you, but there was a point in time several years ago that I was actually approached to do a reality show as well. Whole other story. Whole other show. Didn’t do it for a variety of reasons. But it always made me wonder, having gone through that, I did actually film and put together the sizzle real and all that type of thing. And it was an amazing experience. But it always made me wonder what it is that makes somebody, you know, be prompted to apply for a reality show or a game show or something along those lines.

Dennis
So what was it that got you stoked about trying out?

Holly
Well, all three of our kids went off to college, and I was a swim coach for 17 years. And I, I basically I was a stay at home mom. Coached the swim team. And I did everything for my kids. I followed them in all their events. I went to all their sporting events and everything. I remember when Elizabeth left, our last one, left to go to college, I was standing in the kitchen and I thought to myself, Now what am I going to do with my life?

Holly
What am I going to do? My kids are gone. I’ve lived my life for my kids. And Survivor came on that night, Survivor Samoa. And I stood there and I went, I should try to see if I could get on this show, not even thinking about making it. I thought, I’m just going to throw a video together. And I had to, I made a three minute audition tape. It wasn’t anything spectacular. I stood behind a table, put a picture of each one of our children, lifted them individually and explained they were all off to college.

And I didn’t actually send it in right away because I thought, do I really want to do this. I don’t like camping. I am deathly afraid of snakes. And so some of the people, you know, my family, some of my friends said, Holly, what do you have to lose? Send it in and see what happens. So I thought, OK, I’ll send it in. Well, I didn’t hear anything back, but for me it was basically, a lot of my friends tell me I was going through menopause and I was having a bad moment.

Dennis
That’s what a woman who’s going through menopause really wants to hear, if it were true. Right. Yeah. No.

Holly
But I think it was just I wanted to just see if these people were going to call me back. And I thought, and I was a survivor watcher. So that also helped. And I thought, oh, it’s not real anyway, I’m sure you just go out there and you, you know, they put you in a tent or a camper after you fell for six hours. And so it was just kind of a last minute decision, thinking, OK, I’ll just send in a tape and see what happens.

Holly
And I did it. And eight months later they called me.

Dennis
Wow. You know, for those who have been living under a rock for the last ump-teen years, whatever it’s been, explained to some of our audience, what survivor, what we’re even referring to, I just presume most people know what the reality show Survivor is. It’s probably one of the first reality shows.

Holly
Yes, it was. It’s the first. And then, of course, the longest. The last couple of seasons have been on because the pandemic. But they will be filming in the summer again. So hopefully it’ll be on in the spring. But anyway, it’s, it’s, what it is, is some seasons have had 18 players, some have had 20, and there’s two tribes. And the two tribes live in a very remote area in the middle of the jungle.

Holly
We were in the jungles of Nicaragua. And then you meet every three days and you do a challenge. If you lose the challenge, you have to go to something called tribal council, where when you go to tribal council, you have to carry a torch. (holds up torch).

Dennis
There it is.

Holly
There it is! And your torch is on fire. And then, of course, if you’re voted off, you take your torch, you put it in front of Jeff Probst, the host of the show, and then he puts your torch out and you’re out of the game.

Dennis
So you want to keep that torch lit.

Holly
You want to keep your torch lit, and you want to keep it lit for thirty nine days. If you make it to day thirty nine, which they usually have three people who make it to day thirty nine. The last nine people that were voted off, they come back on day thirty nine and then they cast a vote for who they want to win.

Holly
So they drop you off, you have one set of clothes, you have a swimsuit, you have a water bottle and a bag. That’s it. And I thought it was, I thought it was, I didn’t think it was real. I had this vision in my mind that I would get out to the jungle. We’d vote, we’d play the game for six hours. We go in a camper, a tent. It is absolutely the real deal. I wore the same clothes the entire time I was there. I didn’t brush my teeth as long as I made it.

Holly
You have to, we lived in the, it rained the first seventeen nights we were out there. You could hear the howler monkies screaming at night. You know, of course, the cast and the crew they’re up there around, but you’re not allowed to talk to them, they’re in rain gear, they have the cameras, but you have to fend for your own food. It is the absolute real deal.

Dennis
I can say that I’m sure Dana can, can really identify with that because she does doesn’t brush her teeth for month at a time, wears the same clothes, and she has a lot of howler monkeys around her all the time as well, so…

Dana
I can’t even, so when you were dropped off, did you still have that vision of, OK, we’re going to get a nice meal at the end of the day and in the trailer or whatever…

Holly
I did.

Holly
Even when you were dropped off?

Holly
Even when I was dropped off. But backing up a little bit when they called me for my first casting call, I actually thought it was fake. I thought somebody was playing a joke because I was like, what?

Dennis
Something Dana would also be doing, I’m sure.

Dana
I totally would.

Holly
And then I went to fly to L.A. for a casting call. And I was there the entire week. They flew me home. And then I didn’t find out for three weeks that until I made it. But my season I had asked one of the casting directors. There were about one hundred thousand people that applied.

Dennis
Wow.

Holly
So just getting on this show is really hard. I, I know people who have applied for practically every season. We have one lady in our, on our tribe that applied 17 times.

Dennis
Had, had you applied previous to your selection?

Holly
No, it was my first time.

Dennis
It was your first time.

Dana
Had you ever thought about doing even a game show before?

Holly
Never.

Dana
This was, wow. You chose a big one.

Holly
Actually I always thought it would be fun to be on The Price is Right. That’s about as far as I’d go.

Dana
Sure, yeah.

Holly
I had never, ever thought about doing anything. And it was just standing in the kitchen having a moment and thinking what it would be like to try to get on this show?

Dana
You know, you mentioned something that I had always thought as well. I just kind of, I was never an avid follower. I watch it every once in a while. I may have even watched it when when you were on. I don’t, I don’t recall. But I had the presumption that, yeah, you know, you see people all haggard and, and dirty right now, but they go off to, you know, the hotel and and eat and drink and party and whatever, and then they’re back on. But you’ve obviously convinced me otherwise that that’s not the case.

Holly
The absolute real deal. I mean, I was, and then of course, I had a really hard time. I started on a bad note. Day five I was done. I walked up to a producer and I said, I can’t do this.

Dennis
Let, let me stop you there, Holly, because I know this story and I want to get back to it. But I want to talk about Holly B.S. And by that I mean before Survivor. Not the other thing. Because I know, you know, you’ve given us a little bit of information as to, you know, how and when you, you came to that decision.

Dennis
And I want to talk more about the why. I know a little bit, obviously through the years about your, your background. You mentioned having a tough childhood. You mentioned having a chip on your shoulder.

Dennis
But I know you also had some some competitiveness in you based on your, your, your childhood and the high school years. Tell us a little bit about that before we get into Survivor a little more.

Holly
I did. I’m very competitive. I of course, that, I think totally helped me in Survivor. But I was a basketball player. I was a three time state champion in the one hundred and the three hundred meter hurdles. Held the state record for thirteen years. So I was very competitive. I have two older brothers, so we were always in the driveway playing basketball. I started to run and that’s really where I felt like, I don’t know, it was almost a release for me.

Holly
When I was at home and I felt pressured and things were not going well, I would just go outside and start running. So, yes, I was an athlete growing up, ran at the University of Northern, Northern State University. So I, it’s always been a part of my life and I’ve just been a competitive person. I just have that drive to compete.

Dennis
And I can attest now, I don’t know how tall you are, but I know you’re pretty tall because I’m six, six foot four, and you’re as tall as, as they come when I’m standing next to a woman. So in heels, you’re probably pretty close.

Holly
I think I am. I think I am.

Dennis
So you mentioned kids and I, if I recall, you have three? Is that right? When did you start having kids?

Holly
I was very young when I got married. I was married at nineteen and I had three kids by the time I was twenty three years old. So I was very young when I got married and started a family. And I basically, I was going to college and then I stopped going to college, but when the second one was born, I went back to school. I always wanted to be an elementary teacher. And then it was very hard.

Holly
It was commuting, one way was an hour and a half, two little kids. And I remember going and picking them up from the daycare, and Alex fell out of the crib, hit her head on the cement floor at the daycare and had this big knot on her head. And I drove home that day and I said to Charlie, I said, I’m done, I’m staying home, I’m raising the kids. And that’s what I did. I stayed home with the kids.

I taught I taught aerobics for a while. So I kind of got a release to get out of the house. But yeah. So that’s basically what I did. And now our oldest son, he is a lawyer and our middle daughter, she and her husband have a dental office. And then our youngest daughter, she and her husband are both doctors.

Dennis
So you did it right.

Holly
Yeah. Lawyer, dentist and a doctor. I’m set. Never assisted living for me.

Dennis
That’s right. Plus, I think anybody who, who is going through, you know, raising three children at a young age like that, you know, that’s pretty good practice for Survivor right there.

Holly
Exactly. Well, especially not even when they were younger, but when they were all three teenagers, that was true survival.

Dennis
Now, I think you mentioned, I don’t know if you mentioned it today, but I know you’ve mentioned it to me before, that you did some, you were a swim coach, weren’t you…

Holly
Yes. I was.

Dennis
..for awhile before this?

Holly
Yeah.

Dennis
Oh, I’m sorry. I was going to say. And you weren’t, I mean, you may have been a swimmer, but you had no familiarity with that, did you?

Holly
I was not a swimmer. I was not a swimmer. In fact, my brothers basically taught me how to swim. I never had a swimming lesson. And then my freshman year in college, I signed up for intermediate swimming and I almost flunked and then one of the girls from the track team, she and I would go to the YMCA and she basically taught me how to swim so I could pass intermediate swimming. So but but it was our youngest child, Austin, he was six years old, and he just jumped in the pool and he just had a love for water. And he loved to swim and he loved it. And I thought gosh I should see if I can do something with this talent. And I signed him up to be on a swim team and he absolutely loved it.

Holly
And then I decided that, you know what? I’m just going to do this and start a swim team and, and invite all the kids from the community. And whoever wants to be part of the swim team can be part of the swim team. So that’s what I did. And then I started my own team, I coached the team. I had to learn a lot about everything because I really didn’t know a lot about competitive swimming. And, and then, and then both of our daughters both went on to college and swam on full scholarships.

Dennis
Wow.

Holly
Yeah.

Dennis
And was that like your full time gig before Survivor?

Holly
Yes. Yes. Mm hmm.

Dennis
Well, let’s talk more about Survivor. You started to tell the story about how you, when you first started the game and what that was like.

Holly
Yeah, it was horrible. It was just, you know, I got out there and I, the, the thing about our season, one tribe was 30 and younger and one tribe was 40 and over. So it was old versus young.

Dennis
How is that fair?

Holly
I know! And I actually think that was one of the reasons I got picked, because at the casting call, they made us do a lot of physical fitness. You know, running, swimming, and I think they, they wanted some older people that were athletic as well. So when people say to me, well, how do you think you, why were you chosen? And that’s, I think one of them, because I was athletic and so forth. But I just, I just didn’t think it was real. And I got out there and I was like, this is real.

Holly
And you know how it is when you leave your car and you have to run into the grocery store and it’s pouring rain? Imagine sleeping in that in a jungle for 17 nights. And we filmed in Nicaragua in the rainy, at the rainy season, during the rainy season, and it was just, it wouldn’t, it wasn’t a sprinkle. It was a downpour for hours. And you’d have to just lay there and shiver and you try to hide under a tree. And but I, I was day five. I was done. I just walked up to a producer and I said this, I can’t do this.

Dana
You know, I watched early on in Survivor and I don’t think there were really teams back then. I think it was kind of every man for themself in the beginning until people kind of figured out, you know, how to how to play. And for me, community is a huge thing. When you were on there, especially in the beginning, was it even though you had a team, was it lonely or did you feel like you were part of something while you were there?

Holly
You know you make alliances, I mean, when you start you’re part of a tribe. There’s 10 on each tribe, and you’re actually playing for yourself. But you also have to think about who you can trust because you make alliances and you go up to people and say, you know, hey, let’s stick together. Let’s try to make it to the end. I won’t vote you off if you don’t vote me off, you know. So you are playing an individual game, but on the same hand, you’re not.

Holly
Because I got out there, I made an alliance with a lady right away and she was the first one to be voted off. And I went, oh, no, this is not good.

Dana
Yeah.

Holly
So then I tried to switch my alliance and then on day 19, you merge. Both tribes came together. There were twelve people left at that point. And then, of course, you have to think, there’s a, there is a lot of scheming that goes on.

Dennis
That was the word that was coming to my mind.

Holly
Yeah. It’s a lot of scheming. And when I left to go play this game, I said I’m not going to lie, cheat or steal.

Holly
And I did within the first day.

Dana
Oh you have to.

Holly
I did. Yeah.

Dennis
Well, you know, and I know you, you were surprised about how tough it was, how tough it ended up being. And then on day five, you about had it. What happened then?

Holly
I was just, I didn’t fit in with my tribe. They were almost I felt like they were treating me like I was some hick from South Dakota. You know, like this little farm girl that didn’t know anything. And I had watched the game, but I just, I just felt like I didn’t fit in with these people. And there was a gentleman on on my tribe, and he was he was extremely wealthy. And I don’t want to offend anyone when I tell you this story, because if you could afford these things, it’s wonderful.

Holly
But, you know, he was bragging how he had he was wearing $2,500 a pair of pants, and an $850 sweater, and he had these $1,600 pair of alligator shoes. And I’m like, to play Survivor?

Dana
Right.

Holly
And he just kept making fun of me constantly. And I had just had it. I wasn’t eating, I wasn’t sleeping. So I stole his $1,600 pair of alligator shoes out of his bag and I filled them with sand I threw them in the ocean.

Dennis
That’ll show him!

Holly
It was not good! It was just not good.

Dana
That’s fantastic.

Holly
I was, I just lost it. You know, we, we’ve all been there, right? We’ve all been to the breaking point of being like, you know, just yelling or screaming, I don’t know. And I after I did it, I walked back to camp and I thought, this is going to be on national television. You know, I coach swimming. I have these kids. I have three kids of my own. What what is my community going to think?

Holly
So I went back and I tried to find him and I couldn’t find him.

Dennis
Oh no.

Holly
We’re sitting at camp and he’s walking around looking for his shoes and he can’t find them. And I’m just thinking this is not going to end well. And he, I finally just confessed. I said, you know what? I took them. They’re gone. I threw them in the water. And he looked at me and said, you know, if you were a guy right now, I would hit you.

Dennis
Wow.

Holly
And I just, oh! So I, I did it out of anger. I did it out of, I was, I was tired. I was… But watching that on national television, because you film this show and then you come home and you watch yourself. That was really hard to watch myself.

Dennis
Be that person?

Holly
Stealing, destroying someone’s personal property. And I use that in my presentation. I use that as an example of if you had a camera on you twenty four hours a day, could you do it? Everything that you said about people? And it would make people think about their words and their actions a little bit more.

Dana
I love that question.

Holly
Yeah.

Dana
That’s a great question.

Dennis
How much of what actually happened remained on the cutting floor during editing, that you know, what would you have liked to have seen that, you know, took place that was never aired, or what are you glad didn’t air?

Holly
No. There were some things I’m really, really glad… I was actually surprised I knew the shoe incident they would show because that was great television and I even warned my family. I said day five is not good, but I just want to I will have a story about that.

Holly
But I just want to finish on day five. Jimmy Johnson, the former NFL football coach for the Dallas Cowboys, was on my tribe. And Coach Johnson actually applied three times to get on the show. He’s a huge Survivor fan. Yeah.

Dennis
Wow.

Holly
First time he didn’t make it. Second time he didn’t pass his physical, and then the third time he made it. But he actually saved me. He and I went over and we sat on this log and I said, I’m done. I’m quitting. I was crying. And they showed this whole clip.

Holly
And he said, you know, Holly, I’m really going to try to encourage you not to quit. You need to stay. And he he did. He talked me off the ledge. He said, you know what? You can do this. And I’m telling you, I just got up from that log and I just was like, he’s right. I can do this. So he’s the one that basically saved my game.

Dennis
And I don’t know if this, if I, if I remember this accurately, but is the prize like a million dollars?

Holly
It’s million dollars.

Dennis
Million dollars. Obviously, Jimmy Johnson wasn’t playing for the money, I would assume.

Holly
He told us that the first game, first day out, he said, you know what, I am not playing for a million dollars. I don’t need it. I’m here to help others further themselves in the game.

Dennis
And, and really, when it comes down to it, when your, your odds are so stacked against you, were many people really playing for the money, or was it the experience and the exposure or.

Holly
Oh no.

Dennis
Yeah, they were there for the money. You were there for the money?

Holly
They were playing for the money. Oh yes. You know, so. Yeah, they were definitely…

Dennis
You too?

Holly
Oh yeah. Well everybody wants a million dollars, right?

Dennis
If you’re going to do it for sure. Right.

Holly
People would say, you know, if you won the million dollars, what would have you done with it. And I said I would have built a, a nice swimming pool in our community. I would have definitely done something for the community. Coaching swimming that long. We didn’t practice in a community pool. We practice in a private pool. So we didn’t even have the correct length of a swimming pool.

Holly
We practiced in a 20 by 40 foot pool. So yeah. So that’s what I would have done if I would have won.

Dennis
Now, I’ve heard you tell the story about you wanting to quit and then that Jimmie Johnson kind of talked you out of it. What was going on behind the scenes? I mean, were the producers freaked out? Is that something that’s common, that people end up just withdrawing from the show?

Holly
Not a lot. I mean, there have been people that have quit, in fact, after the merge on day 19, when you make the merge and survivor, that’s huge. That’s, that’s great to make the merge. And after the merge, there were two gals that quit. They walked off the show. They had 11 days left.

Dana
Oh, wow.

Holly
I know.

Dennis
Why at that point?

Holly
They just said they couldn’t do it anymore and they were on the young tribe. They were a couple of the younger players and they quit. I tried to talk both of them out of not quitting. You know, I said, you’re going to regret this for the rest of your life. Don’t do it. And they both ended up walking off the show. But yeah. Yeah.

Holly
So, but the producers after, after, before I talked to Jimmy Johnson. No, this was after excuse me. After I talked to Jimmy Johnson, they were actually setting up the cameras for me to do my exit interview. And I was sitting on a log and they were setting up the cameras. And Jeff Probst, the host of the show, was on his way to interview me. And the last thing Jeff Probst ever wants is for somebody to quit. So I was a little scared to have an interview with Jeff Probst.

Holly
And one of the producers, his name was Johnny. He walked over to me and he said, are you, are you absolutely sure that this is what you want to do? And I remember sitting there and thinking, what is my, what are my kids going to think? My family, my community?

Holly
I’m going to quit and I can’t get back on this show. And bam, I just got up from the log and I started walking, and Johnny looked at me and he said, he hollered, where are you going? And I remember turning around and I looked at him and I said, I’m not quitting. I’m going to play this game. I signed up for this. I’m not a quitter. I need to continue playing.

Dennis
Well, good for you. I’m sure it was, ended up being the right decision for you.

Holly
Oh completely, yeah.

Dennis
Has obviously led to a lot of other opportunities that we want to discuss, too.

Holly
Yeah.

Dennis
By the way. So speaking of Jeff Probst and other folks like Jimmy Johnson, have you kept in touch with any of them since Survivor?

Holly
I kept in touch with Jimmy Johnson. In fact, he, he wrote the foreword to my book.

Dennis
Oh, alright, cool.

Holly
Let’s see if I can find the page and show it to you guys. But. yes, he did. He wrote the foreword to my book. He is a wonderful, wonderful person. Here we are. (shows book page).

Dennis
Nice.

Holly
Yeah, so…

Dennis
Very nice.

Holly
And then, you know, you do keep in touch with people from your season. Some people, of course, when the tribes hadn’t merged yet some of those people got voted off before I met them. So, but you do, you keep in touch with those people. We just had our 10 year anniversary, and so we had a big Zoom. Everybody came on and we all Zoomed and kind of caught up where everyone was and so forth. So you do keep in touch.

Dennis
Is there, are there ever, like reunions among different seasons where they have people? Hey, we’re going to have all of the season. Everybody that’s ever been part of Survivor is going to show up here during this weekend and we’re just going to party. Anything like that ever occur.

Holly
Well we don’t really have reunions. But they have charity events. Like I’ve been in Temecula, California, for breast cancer. They invite reality people to come in and they do special things to raise money. But it’s not just Survivor, it’s Survivor, Big Brother, Amazing Race. So you get to meet a lot of other survivors, other reality people.

Holly
And then I’ve also gone to Florida. They do, for Make a Wish Foundation. They’ve done fundraisers there. I’ve gone there. So if you’re invited to an event, that’s usually where you see, of course, we did talk about going on a cruise, our, just our season because it was 10 years. But then with the pandemic, we weren’t able to do that.

Dennis
Yeah. And I want to talk a bit about the pandemic, but you ended up staying, obviously, and you finished, I think you said it’s a 39 day stint and you made it to day 38, is that right?

Holly
38. I was the last one voted off.

Dennis
Yeah. By the way, was, was the winner from the young team or the older team?

Holly
The young team. I was left with three young gentlemen and I was in a very tight alliance with two of them and the three of us were going to go to the final three, and the one that we were going to vote off, on day 38, he won the last challenge. And because he won the last challenge, he was automatically in the final three.

Holly
So we between the three of us that had the alliance, we had to pick someone. And I actually thought it was going to be a tie. I thought one of the gentlemen was not going to vote for me. And then, you know, I was voted off. But, you know, like I say in my presentation, I wasn’t one day short. I was thirty eight days long.

Dennis
That’s right.

Holly
In life you’re never one day short to take an opportunity to step out of your comfort zone. And sometimes we need to remember that.

Dennis
And you did so much better than so many of the people on either tribe. And obviously you beat out one hundred thousand people or so to even get on the show. So that’s amazing.

Holly
But you learn that about yourself when everything’s taken away as well. There were many days that I sat in the jungle all by myself, didn’t have a cell phone or computer, just clothes on my back. And you sit and you really reflect about things in your life. So, yeah.

Dennis
Well, and speaking of, obviously you went through the struggles that they present to you, you know, in that framework for the show. But I know that you’ve been through struggles. You mentioned some of the struggles before the show. And I know you’ve been through some struggles since the show.

Holly
Oh yes, I have. Mmm hmm.

Dennis
And I wanted to talk a bit about that because obviously so many people have struggled this, this past year with the pandemic and the impact that that’s had on so many people’s lives and businesses and whatnot. So I think people can really come away with some some good inspiration, knowing what you’ve had to face, the adversity you’ve dealt with between the show and now and have had to overcome. So can you speak to that a bit?

Holly
Well, you know, we all, we all have a story to tell. And I think sometimes when I when I get on stage, you know, they look at me and they are like, oh, you know, she’s, she’s had a great career. She’s been on a reality show. But deep down, we all have a story. Everyone, no, there’s there’s no one person that I know that has a perfect life.

Holly
And I was married for thirty two years. That was a huge struggle. My husband decided he wanted a divorce, which I totally did not expect. One thing that I wanted to do is, is I wanted to remain friends, which was was hard right away, very, very hard because of the situation. But you have to do that for the sake of your family and for your, for your kids. And that was a very hard year. We separated for a year and then, of course, we went through a divorce.

Holly
So it’s been three years. And it’s, it’s still hard because I have never been alone. I was married at 19. I always had Charlie at my side or one of my children and all of my children are married. And, you know, Charlie has gone his way. I’ve gone mine. And I didn’t even know how to, like, put my little sticker on my license plate on my car because Charlie did everything for me.

Holly
And so it’s really made me a more independent person that I moved into an apartment. I didn’t have anything. When I, when we separated, I slept on the floor for the first three nights until I found a couch and I just kept working really hard. So I went from an apartment. I purchased a condo and love the condo. And I thought, you know what, I can do this. And I just purchased my, my own, my, my first home. And I’m fifty four years old, so it’s never too late. Charlie and I do remain friends, but I have learned a lot about myself.

Holly
That I am independent. I’m a lot stronger than I thought of. And women in general, everybody needs to remember this, but women in general need to realize how strong they really are. And you don’t need someone to hold your hand and guide you and say that you can because you can tell yourself that you can.

Dennis
And I think that’s a great point in something that our audience can certainly identify with, especially, you know, it could be men, it could be women. But I think if there are women that have been through a similar situation where they have been the homemaker and not used to doing taking on some of these obligations and responsibilities, it can be tough. And like I said, the reverse can be tough. But the fact is that they can do it as you have done it.

Holly
100%.

Dennis
And I think that’s an inspiration.

Holly
Yeah.

Dennis
And speaking of of inspiration, I know, you know, what you’ve done since the show. You’ve become a successful, motivational, inspirational speaker. How did that happen? I mean, did you did you know, going in that this is where you want to take your career after Survivor?

Holly
I had absolutely no idea. Zero. What happened was during the show, people asked me if I could come and just talk about it. So I did. But I had to be very careful because I could only talk about the episodes that were aired. I couldn’t, I couldn’t leak out any other information. So after the show was over, which was December 13th, my first speaking presentation was January 7th, and it was to a Quanah’s club. And they said, would you just come and speak about your experience?

Holly
And I thought, oh, my goodness, what am I going to talk about? So I called Jeff Probst, first I called CBS and I said, I need to talk to Jeff. And he called me back and I said…

Dennis
Of course.

Dana
That’s what we all do.

Dennis
I’d like to speak to the president also, please.

Holly
…and I said I got asked to speak and he said, great, you’ve got a great story to tell. You did a 180. You didn’t give up. And I said well what am I supposed to talk about?

Holly
And he gave me the best advice ever. He said, speak from your heart and tell your story. And when I go up and speak, you know I customize my presentations to the group that I’m speaking to. If I’m speaking to an all women’s conference, a mixed conference, you know, whatever, whoever I’m speaking to, I try to tell my story to fit what, their, their event. But it’s just a story that we’ve all struggled.

Holly
You know, we’ve all had situations in our lives and my story is, because I always get the whole, oh reality show woman, what does she have to tell us? And then I start talking and it’s like, you know this, I relate things back to the real world.

Holly
And then I, I spoke the first one and two ladies came up to me and said, hey, would you be willing to speak at our event? And I’m like, yeah, sure.

Holly
And I did that for a year. And then I started researching professional speaking and I thought, I think I can make a career out of this.

Holly
So I started charging a very small amount. And then after the second year, I had a speaking bureau reach out to me and I…

Dennis
By the way, your checks in the mail, Holly.

Holly
How many years has it been? And I said, no. And I thought, I’m not going to go with a speaking bureau. And I thought and then I thought about it a while and I thought maybe I should just give it a whirl. So then I wrote my first book, “Your Winner Within”. Then I had a website built, signed with the first bureau, and then she started booking me speeches for, you know, money that I would have never thought in a million years. I was like, speakers get paid this much? I was shocked.

Dennis
You’re scaring people now. I want to, in fact, I want to look now, you know, obviously, this is a podcast. So most people are, most people, meaning the millions of people that are listening right now. They can also see this on video. So I’m looking right at the camera now, and I’m telling you, when I saw that Holly was speaking at the first event that I met her at, I had that same reaction, which is, so she did a reality show. I mean, how does that qualify her to be a motivational speaker? I’m here to tell you, she puts on a show. I mean, she is so good. So whatever she’s charging now, it’s well worth it, I’m sure.

Dennis
So I’m sorry I interrupted, but I had to get that plug in.

Holly
But it’s it’s the truth. I mean…

Dennis
That whatever she’s charging, it’s worth it. It’s the truth she’s telling you right now.

Holly
No! What I’m saying about the reality show, because I get that a lot. And then I start telling my story about, you know, how I grew up. I was raised in an abusive family. And, you know, it’s a total turnaround. And I also think it’s a lesson that everybody needs to hear. We all go through something, right? Even when I went through my divorce, I couldn’t even say the word divorce. You know, I was like, no, this isn’t happening to me.

Holly
And I’m like, you know what? I’m human. But I also need to be friends with Charlie. I’m not going to be an angry woman the rest of my life. So we all go through things, but it’s how we handle them and what we learn from them and how we grow from them. That’s what’s so very important.

Dennis
And along those lines, for instance, with respect to the divorce, is that something that you’ve incorporated in any of your presentations?

Holly
You know, I haven’t, because it’s, I just don’t want to bring it to stage. I still talk about Charlie in my presentation, because on day 33 our loved ones came and we did a challenge together and there were six people left at that point in the game. So he is part of my story. And you know what? He always will be. We have three wonderful children together, five great, wonderful grandchildren together. And so he’ll always be part of my story.

Holly
But I just, for now, I don’t think, I still struggle talking about it because it’s, it’s still very painful.

Dennis
Well, I know and I’m sure Dana would say the same. I appreciate the fact that you have spoken openly about it here. And I’m sure our audience does as well. As far as though the, you mentioned customizing your presentations depending on the audience. Now, you don’t start from scratch. Don’t you have some themes that you kind of stay within the framework when you’re doing that?

Holly
Yes, I have like a basic story. And usually what I do is I research who I’m speaking for. If they have a mission statement, I bring that in and I send out a contract to people, and I have a couple of discussions with them, like, what do you expect from me? What would you like for me to incorporate? Like a lot of it right now is adapting to the now. We’re all, we’re all in survival mode.

Holly
But you know what? We’ve survived 2020. Now it’s time to thrive. I’ve been doing a lot of that. And how can you thrive? And the six words that I talk about are attitude, determination, competence, desire, perseverance and faith. So those are the six words that I bring into my presentation just by telling my survivor story.

Dennis
So then you wrap your, the theme around those words and customize it according to the audience.

Holly
Yes. Yes.

Dennis
I’m simplifying because that’s what I do. I try to, try to simplify things.

Dennis
Now, I, I know that we have spent some time getting to know Holly, Holly B.S. Before Survivor, and and also during and after Survivor. But now it’s time to really drill down and get into some really serious questions. And I know Dana has been really dying to ask some of these questions. So I’m going to let her, I’m going to let her start off with some of her questions.

Holly
Absolutely.

Dana
I actually do have a real question. And I’m glad you brought up that the six things that you talk about, I looked them, I wrote them down from your website and, you know, talking about the pandemic that we’ve been in for the last 20 years now…

Holly
Yeah, I know.

Dana
I personally fell into kind of a bit of a pandemic pity party this weekend because I’m you know, I just hit one of those places where I’m over it, even though that’s really not an option.

Dana
So how do you, I’m sure you still have those moments because we’re all human. How do you pick yourself up out of those moments and kind of find your way, your way back to be six, these six key words for you?

Holly
You know, I think, what I do is I surround myself with the right people.

Dennis
She doesn’t have that option. Unfortunately, she’s working here, so.

Holly
And now being alone, I was so used to traveling and being around people all the time. And now I’m in this house by myself. A lot of times all day.

Dana
Yeah.

Holly
And it, it does get depressing. I was in the same place. I was like, oh, I’m, I would I would give a presentation and I’m looking at the green light and I’m smiling. And then I turn the camera off and I walk away and I’m like, oh! Whereas when I was going a speech I could go to the social hour and I could talk to people afterwards. So, but you have a choice. You can either say, you can either look at the, what you don’t have or you can look at what you have.

Holly
You know, I have a home, I have heat, I have food. I have a family who loves me. I have kids that are calling me all the time to see how I’m doing. Your life could be so much worse. This is something we are going to get through, you know, and that’s kind of how I would get through it by being thankful and grateful for what I have and not looking at what I don’t have.

Holly
What I don’t have is, oh I can’t get on a plane. I can’t go to a live event and get up on a stage. You know what? That’s OK, because that’s going to come back. And so you got to look at what you have. And we’ve all been there, Dana. There’s been times where I’ve sat in this house and I’ve literally cried, you know. It’s my job. Am I still going to be able to do this job. And but it’s how do you get back up is, call somebody, you know? Don’t think that you can do it on your own because we can’t.

Dana
That’s huge.

Holly
Call somebody invented somebody and say, you know what? You don’t have to say anything. Just listen to me. And that makes a big difference too.

Dennis
So, well, you know, since since you’re taking a pause to find your real questions, Dana, I do want to ask you, Holly, what, what is it you’re looking for this year? What do you, what would you like to see in your life and what would you like to see for the country occur in the next 12 months?

Holly
Well, you know, I when I go on stage or go to events, I never talk about politics, but I’m not, you know, so I I’m just going to look at the overall what I would like to see. We all need more kindness in our lives. There’s a lot of bitterness, there’s a lot of going this way, going this way. Where is that getting us? Nowhere. Where does anger get you? Where does where does destruction get you? Where does, it doesn’t get you anywhere. I would love to see for this country to come together and say, you know what, this is how we have to resolve this situation.

Holly
And here’s another thing. You’re not always going to agree with a politician who’s been elected. You will not always agree. But they’ve been elected, they’re doing their best. Let’s support them. Let’s…

Dennis
Absolutely.

Holly
OK, you know what? This is the way it’s going to be, how are we going to make this better? So that’s what I would like to see for the country, is stop the anger, stop the violence, stop the fighting. How can you do that? I wish I could go and talk to every high school in the United States and say, listen, this is how you, kindness, it’s one word.

Dana
Yeah, it’s kindergarten basics.

Holly
What I like to see for myself. I’m just ready to, I just want to stay healthy. I want to enjoy my family, enjoy my grandkids and, and keep booking presentations and hopefully getting on stage. I did just book one in Delaware last week, a live event. So that’s what I would like to see. But I think the most important thing is I just I just want to stay healthy. If you don’t have your health, you don’t have anything.

Holly
So that’s, that’s one thing that’s very important to me.

Dennis
I imagine most of your presentations this past year had to have been via Zoom or virtual in some fashion?

Holly
A lot of them. And I was lucky because I was driving home from Iowa and I just did a presentation in March and one of my bureaus called and said we need to start doing virtual immediately. And I said what? I said, because I just was like, this is not going to happen.

Dana
Right.

Holly
Next week I had a camera guy at my house and we shot a video, a promo video. And I honestly didn’t even, I had done one virtual.

Dennis
Wow.

Holly
Wow! You know, but…

Dennis
You learn fast.

Holly
You learn fast! And, you know, did I like them right away? I didn’t. Because you’re talking and you’re looking at a green light. You don’t know if people are laughing or if they’re watching or if they’re on their phone. You know, you give your story and you hope that they’re listening to it. But you know what? I’ve done quite a few now, and I’m beginning to like them. And if I continue to do them and live, that’s the change that I will make.

Dennis
Sure. A nice mix of the two.

Holly
Yes.

Dennis
Dana, you have to, you have to ask Holly some of those questions that…

Dana
I have burning questions. These are going to be the most important questions of the podcast for everybody. So I want, I would love to know who is your favorite superhero.

Holly
Oh, my gosh. Well, it’s really not, how do I say not a superhero? Can I answer that in a different way?

Dana
However you like?

Holly
My mom is my superhero.

Dana
Awwww.

Holly
She set the example of hard work, never giving up. She never complained when we had nothing. She always said things are going to get better. And to this day, she is my hero. I dedicated my book to my mom because she still to this day, she’s a huge supporter. I love her to death.

Dana
Yay, Mom.

Holly
Yes.

Dana
OK, so if you had to describe yourself as like a farm animal that you identify with most, which farm animal would you choose.

Holly
Oh boy! What farm animal? Oh, gosh, that’s a hard one.

Dana
Actually, it is.

Dennis
Never, you’ve never been asked that one before, have ya?

Holly
No! This is the first time I’ve ever been asked that question. Umm, well OK. I hope the viewers don’t laugh when I say this, but I would have to say there’s dogs on the farm and dogs can kind of just walk around farm and be free and just go with the flow. So I’d have to say a dog.

Dennis
And they don’t get eaten, usually.

Holly
Exactly!

Dana
That’s good. I hadn’t thought about it from that angle. Dennis always comes at it from a different angle that you never though of. We asked him the question that if you were stranded on a deserted island, what are three things you would need to have with you? And naturally he’s like a map gas and a boat. And that cut the conversation completely. No, everybody was like mind blown. It’s over. It’s over.

Dennis
Well, I have one for you. Maybe it’s a little insightful, but if, if someone was going to do a movie of your life story, who plays Holly Hoffman?

Holly
OK, you’re probably going to laugh again. I love this actress. OK, Julia Roberts. Are you kidding me?

Dennis
Of course.

Dana
Of course.

Dennis
Yeah. I’d never play my life story. Perfect. What’s, what’s what’s the movie called, by the way?

Holly
What would be the movie called? Moving Forward? I don’t know. That’s a very basic name. Thriving and Surviving. I don’t know.

Dana
I like it.

Dennis
Dana, you have any more really compelling questions?

Dana
You know, not exactly. I do want to know though, what is the first thing you did after you were voted off the island?

Holly
Well, as I remember, as I was voted off, I was walking off and the cameras were in front of me and I started talking and I said, you know what? No matter, I knew coming in, playing this game, no matter what happens, my family and friends are going to be proud of me back home.

And then they take you away and you do an interview and then they take you back to what’s called the Ponderosa. And, and as I walked into the Ponderosa, all those people that I had voted off are there. So, of course, my first worry was, how are they going to treat me? They all hate me. I voted them off. I wrote their names on, I schemed to get them off.

Dennis
Part of the game.

Holly
I did have a little, I had a few that didn’t talk to me. In fact, one lady that I voted off, she didn’t talk to me for a year. Yeah, she was very angry. But a couple of gals came up to me and one of them remembered me saying that my favorite candy bars, candy bar is a Snickers. So she walked up to me and she handed me a king size Snickers bar. And I walked up to the kitchen and I grabbed a jar of peanut butter, dunked the Snickers bar into the jar of peanut butter and ate the whole jar of peanut butter. And then I threw up. So that didn’t make it…

Dennis
Ahh!

Dana
That’s fantastic.

Dennis
Yeah, I was going to say that’s probably the best meal and the worst meal that you’ve ever had right? After…

Holly
But the very first thing I did is, You know, of course, I wanted to take a shower because I hadn’t showered in thirty eight days, brushed my teeth. But when I looked at myself in the mirror, my first thought was, this is how I’m going to look on national television?

Holly
And I lost twenty two pounds. So I was very thin. I was dirty. I smelled. So I remember just…

Dennis
And you’re so big now but, you know.

Holly
Right, so that was, that was the first thing I did is I just wanted food, I just. And then you get sick. You have a hard time getting down for a while. Yeah. Yeah.

Dennis
Well before we let you go today we have to play a little game.

Holly
OK.

Dennis
This is called would you rather, OK?

Holly
Ok.

Dennis
So would you rather sing everything you say or have to raise your hand every time you say something?

Holly
Sing everything I say.

Dennis
Good, good. So that means now the rest of the game you have to sing your response. You didn’t know that was part of the game? OK, ok. So would you rather have to wear a wedding dress with a tiara all the time or a bikini?

Holly
A wedding dress!

Dana
Same.

Holly
Sorry. The Pandemic has been very good to me.

Dennis
OK, yeah. We’ve all had that covid-19. You know, this is a true story. I went to the doctor a few weeks ago just for a checkup and he came in, in his Indian accent, which is very cute, and I don’t mean this in any derogatory sense, but he said, so you have the covid-19 and I actually had covered in October. And I said, no, no, I had it. But, you know, it was it’s been gone since then. And he said, no, no, you don’t understand. You have the covid-19. You gained nineteen pounds in six months since you’ve been here last. Oh I’m like, oh I’m surprised it’s not a lot more than that.

Dennis
But anyway, enough about my problems. Would you rather be slapped across the face every time you greet someone or be given a wedgie every time you leave them?

Holly
I’m going with the wedgie!

Dennis
All right! All right. I don’t blame you. And then the last one that I have and this one’s not mine, so I’m not going to take credit for it. But would you rather have skin that changes color based on your emotions or tattoos all over your body depicting what you did yesterday?

Dana
That jar of peanut butter?

Holly
It’s a hard one. You know what? I’m going with the tattoos.

Dennis
All right. That’s a bold, bold choice, I think.

Dana
It would keep you honest. It would definitely keep you honest.

Holly
Just like those cameras, right?

Dana
Yup.

Dennis
Yeah, yeah.

Dana
Well, some of the tattoos I’d be afraid to show, you know what?

Dennis
Depending on the day. Right. What happened yesterday.

Dennis
Well, Holly, thanks for being such a great sport.

Holly
Thank you so much.

Dennis
Thank you for, for being here with us today. I definitely want to have you back and talk some more with you. I always enjoy talking to you. Love you so much, and it’s been great catching up.

Holly
Yes. I love you, too. And it was great to see Dennis. And great to meet you, Dana. I was very honored to be on today. Thank you so much.

Dennis
Thank you. So our thanks to Holly Hoffman. Thank you all for tuning in. Don’t forget to check out our other podcast, Legal Squeaks, and hopefully you’ll tune in here next time soon.

Dennis
You all have a great day and be safe.